Round 3 - PAUL RICARD '88

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1 month 2 weeks ago #5710 by Allan Ramsbottom
Allan Ramsbottom replied the topic: Round 3 - PAUL RICARD '88
As im aware it does otherwise having camber,toe,etc would be pointless??,be just like an arcade game,floor it and hope for best..same as the weight of the fuel can make a difference,thats why to me when historX mod came out the cars felt so so much better,also with real feel...

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1 month 2 weeks ago #5711 by Allan Ramsbottom
Allan Ramsbottom replied the topic: Round 3 - PAUL RICARD '88
Hmmm,you see more oversteer your scrubbing your tyres,aswell as over cambering,loseing speed as well as tyre wear,bump and rebound can be tricky as they also form part of your suspension set-up

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1 month 2 weeks ago #5712 by Antonio Tavares
Antonio Tavares replied the topic: Round 3 - PAUL RICARD '88

Allan Ramsbottom wrote: Antonio,nah i dont use Motech, [...] anti roll bar as poss,and brake bias more to front.If i,ve bored you sorry...Lol.


I am sleepy, but the reason is that I didn't sleep last night. And on this subject it would be very dificult to bore me - I like debating racecraft very much, and I'mn always ready weather to help a fellow driver or to learn something from someone with different experiences or perspectives. I've read a lot on this subject over my years of simracing, and without false modesty I think I can say that I'm familiar with most of the fundaments of setting up a race car and racecraft in general. I'm not so pleased with the fact that my perfomance in the tracks doesn't reflect the knowlodge I aquired, but I justify to myself with the fact that my obssession with realism, that makes me always search for the real world steering ratio using higher degrees of rotation than most other drivers, and choosing the steering lock that produces the real car steering ratio, makes me slower. And connected with the steering ratio comes my search to drive like if it was a real car, thus beeing a lot more conservative on downshifts than most drivers, and avoiding the use of fist gear, trying (a great number of times with poor results...) to use the car torque instead of the raw horsepower that comes from beeing in high revs most of the time. Am I fooling myself and I'm just a lousy driver? I sincerely think that I'm a reasonable driver in my good days, and that my obsession for realism doesn't allow me to drive in the way that most simulations need to be driven to be among the fastest drivers. Anyway, I can live with it and with myself; winning is not that important in my age, and I have a great time during races and practice sessions and I'm happy with things as they are. And I'm always learning, and that is another source of motivation and a reward in itself.

You're absolutely right about having as much rubber on the track as possible. And you nailed it on your setup, I realized that after comparing with mine and the direction I followed in the 30 minutes I had before the race to roughly adapt it to the track. My first mistake was to put the car on minimum ride height and soften springs and dampers a little, trying to make the car easier to drive. The problem came up when I started to rise my cornering speeds, especially between T1 and T2 and on the first tight left after the 3 rights after the long straight: the car was too soft, and I think that the bottom was touching the ground there, combined with the fact that an uncontrolled rebound after bottoming was inducing heavy understeer and generally a very hard to control car. Your setup was quite higher, with harder springs and dampers, thus much more stable not only on those critical spots but also on the long corners, allowing a much better and easy to control driving. In a word: excelent.

I just asked about Motec because the ride height seemed to have been tuned very precisely, I mean if I recalkl correctly the values were not x,0 or y,5, but x,4 and y,6. That lead me to think that maybe you were checking your ride height over an intire lap with Motec, and adjusting just the amount needed to avoid bottoming.

“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.”

(Steve McQueen)

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1 month 2 weeks ago #5713 by Allan Ramsbottom
Allan Ramsbottom replied the topic: Round 3 - PAUL RICARD '88
I cant give too many secrets away ha ha ha,but some cars do need to be a bit softer,especially the alfa,s,ohh it that another secret given away lol.The GT40 is a brute of a car,it can easily snatch away from u in a blink of an eye,but once reeled in,it is fun.The ferrari is much better at handling but just lacks that top end grunt,i do use some telemetry,not as soficticated as Motech,but it does the job for me,im not the fastest,i think consistency,patience is the key,and to enjoy it,which i do immensley,even at the age of 53 lol..

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1 month 2 weeks ago - 1 month 2 weeks ago #5714 by Antonio Tavares
Antonio Tavares replied the topic: Round 3 - PAUL RICARD '88

Admin wrote:

Allan Ramsbottom wrote: ... the trick is to have as much rubber on the track as possible especially when cornering...Lol.


Do you suggest rubber on track is modelled so in rFactor 1, that it affects laptimes? I thought it came frome rFactor 2.


Marek, I'm pretty shure that what Allan means is that the objective of the different car setup settings (dampers, springs, camber, etc) is to maximize, for each track, the contact patch of the tire with the asphalt. Take camber for instance: By raising the value you tilt the tires - if you look from the front, with 0 degrees camber the tires are straight, 90º with the floor. Rising camber makes the top of the tire tilt inwards like this: / ---- \ . You almost don't notice in a street car, but it's clearly visible in most race cars. A stree car you see: | ---- | - the wheels at aprox. 90º with the floor. There is a little camber, but it's hardly noticiable. So why do race cars have so much camber? Because on corners the tire tilt compensates the rubber distortion, and when cornering you have most of the tire in contact with the asphalt, allowing high grip levels. In a street car, the tire rubber distortion, with low camber level makes the inside part of the tire lift, and only the outside of tire is in contact with the asphalt.
But there is need for compromise, that why each car has different values for different tracks. Higher camber give more grip in corners, but in straight line, because the tire is tilted inwards, the contact patch of the tire (the surface area in cm3 that is effectively in contact with the asphalt) is smaller than a street car with the same tire measure but with lower camber. Consequence: less stability under straight line, especially under heavy braking and heavy acceleration, situations where you need as much contact patch as possible to keep stability and beeing able to put horsepoer on the ground. So, each driver must find the right compromise, the one that suits best his driving style, between grip in corners and straight line stability. That's one of the reasons that setups are so personal, and that one driver might not adapt to a setup developed by another driver - one of them might favour late braking and good grip+ levels when accelereating, and the other migh dfavor the highest possible cornering speed sacrificing braking in straight line and directional stability.

The objective of setting up the car is always the same: having as much rubber on the asphalt as possible; in other words maximizing grip. But different drivers maximize grip in differents areas of the track, and also in different conditions (corners/straights, low speed corners with heavy acceleration on exit / high speed corners mantaining the highest cornering speed possible; etc), and each driver makes his own compromises according to his driving style or even race tactics.

“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.”

(Steve McQueen)
Last Edit: 1 month 2 weeks ago by Antonio Tavares.

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1 month 2 weeks ago #5715 by Antonio Tavares
Antonio Tavares replied the topic: Round 3 - PAUL RICARD '88

Allan Ramsbottom wrote: I cant give too many secrets away ha ha ha,but some cars do need to be a bit softer,especially the alfa,s,ohh it that another secret given away lol.The GT40 is a brute of a car,it can easily snatch away from u in a blink of an eye,but once reeled in,it is fun.The ferrari is much better at handling but just lacks that top end grunt,i do use some telemetry,not as soficticated as Motech,but it does the job for me,im not the fastest,i think consistency,patience is the key,and to enjoy it,which i do immensley,even at the age of 53 lol..


64 was a good crop, bro. ;)

“Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.”

(Steve McQueen)

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1 month 2 weeks ago #5716 by Allan Ramsbottom
Allan Ramsbottom replied the topic: Round 3 - PAUL RICARD '88
Marek,is it ok to drive the 59 sprite,only difference is right/left hand drive..

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1 month 2 weeks ago - 1 month 2 weeks ago #5717 by Admin
Admin replied the topic: Round 3 - PAUL RICARD '88

"Allan wrote: "the trick is to have as much rubber on the track as possible especially when cornering


Now I understand the meaning properly, thnx Antonio.
Last Edit: 1 month 2 weeks ago by Admin.

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1 month 1 week ago - 1 month 1 week ago #5733 by Marek Archipow [Fireball]
Marek Archipow [Fireball] replied the topic: Round 3 - PAUL RICARD '88
Q: 8th
R: 6th

Qual:
Clear track, no traffic. I couldn't reach laptime under 1:34 and I didn't know what the hell happened, because I did 1:33 mid easily one day before the event.

Race:
The comedy of mistakes was continued. As the green light came I forgot to put 1st gear and I overrev the beast on neutral. As I fixed the mistake I saw my engine went down to 30%. Nice. I was going to be competitive but with only 30% engine it seemed to be hard. Short fight with Paul Anstey showed I was right. My engine went down to 17% after intense downshifting, so I let Paul go and was going to keep behind his rear bumper. It was impossible so I decide to be a traveller only to finish with my 6th place. In the end of the race I got closer to Aitor but I had to save engine first. I finished with only... 0% of engine efficiency.

Just after the race I analyzed what happened. What happened with my pace? I did 1:33.3 with race fuel load so... The reason was wrong setup loaded. Damn!
Last Edit: 1 month 1 week ago by Admin.

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